{"id":282,"date":"2004-03-14T23:14:04","date_gmt":"2004-03-15T07:14:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/undreamt.org\/log\/?p=282"},"modified":"2006-04-07T19:15:15","modified_gmt":"2006-04-08T03:15:15","slug":"cantonese-mandarin","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/undreamt.org\/log\/2004\/03\/14\/cantonese-mandarin\/","title":{"rendered":"Cantonese. Mandarin."},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I&#8217;m reading up on Cantonese. Please don&#8217;t ask me why.<\/p>\n<p>All quotes from <a href=\"http:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Cantonese_(linguistics)\">here<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Yes, I will be looking at this article and applying my own experience. >.>;<br \/>\n<!--more--><\/p>\n<p>I find this statement very interesting: &#8220;[Cantonese] is the lingua franca of the Chinese diaspora, spoken by about 70 million people worldwide, less than for example Mandarin Chinese, but still a major language.&#8221; I agree with the first part. Consider the fact that when I walked around Chinatown yesterday, I heard Cantonese. Lots and lots of Cantonese. Also consider the fact I didn&#8217;t know anyone besides my father who spoke Mandarin until I was 9. And it&#8217;s not like my neighbourhood suffered from a lack of Chinese people. Now, the second part about Cantonese being a <i>language<\/i>&#8230; I don&#8217;t know if it qualifies as such. Maybe it&#8217;s just semantics, but I don&#8217;t quite agree with it. It&#8217;s generally accepted that Cantonese is a dialect, right? (Well, I suppose until you consider that there are sub-dialects&#8230; and then things get complicated.)<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Linguistically, Cantonese is a more conservative dialect than Mandarin.&#8221; Which of course implies that Mandarin is a dialect as well. Which it is. Just a really big one, that&#8217;s all. There are sub-dialects of Mandarin just as there are sub-dialects of Cantonese; unfortunately I&#8217;m not familiar with them. I think the &#8220;Chinese language&#8221; only exists in writing; spoken Chinese is broken up into a ton of different dialects.<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Cantonese tends to preserve more variations of sound while Mandarin merged many of them.&#8221; Yes. Which is why Korean sounds are actually closer to Cantonese sounds. (Long story involving language, writing, status, Korea, and Middle Chinese.) And, well, I don&#8217;t know if the initial sound of &#8220;you&#8221; (as in the second-person pronoun) is closer to a &#8220;N&#8221; or &#8220;L&#8221; sound. And no, those sounds aren&#8217;t as distinct as you might think.<\/p>\n<p>Oh, and off the record: Cantonese romanization is odd. It makes no sense. I pick up phrasebooks (phrasebooks, mind you: I can understand this stuff) and I have no idea what the sentences are supposed to mean. At all.<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Formally, written Cantonese does not exist[.]&#8221; Yup. Which is why learning to write is so hard! What you say and what you write are different. &#8220;The written word for &#8220;to be&#8221; is i&#8221;?1\/2i&#8221;?1\/2 in spoken Mandarin (pronounced shi&#8221;?1\/2i&#8221;?1\/2) but is i&#8221;?1\/2S in spoken Cantonese (pronounced hai6). In formal written Chinese, only i&#8221;?1\/2i&#8221;?1\/2 is used.&#8221; *shakes head* When even sounding out words becomes impossible. It is KINDA possible in Chinese, if you know enough characters; radicals and stems and all that. Some have similar characters and similar pronunciations. It&#8217;s possible to guess.<\/p>\n<p>As Winson pointed out a while ago, Cantonese is basically all slang anyway. It&#8217;s not a particulary noble or formal language\/dialect\/sounds that come out of people&#8217;s mouths which are supposed to mean something. I actually have no idea what the Chinese words for &#8220;strawberry&#8221; is. I know what the butchered English word in Chinese is (if that makes any sense; if not, think of the Japanese using katakana for foreign loanwords. It sounds like that. But Cantonese.)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I&#8217;m reading up on Cantonese. Please don&#8217;t ask me why. All quotes from here. Yes, I will be looking at this article and applying my own experience. >.>;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-282","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-general"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/undreamt.org\/log\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/282","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/undreamt.org\/log\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/undreamt.org\/log\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/undreamt.org\/log\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/undreamt.org\/log\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=282"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/undreamt.org\/log\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/282\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/undreamt.org\/log\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=282"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/undreamt.org\/log\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=282"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/undreamt.org\/log\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=282"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}